Episode 20 - How the Dealership Space has Changed with Wayne Hall

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Accelerate your dealership success. This is the Car Guy Simple Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Welcome back to CGS Car Guy Simple, the podcast for everyone in the automobile business, wholesale, retail, otherwise doesn't matter. Thank you so much. We really appreciate Josh. What are we at? Episode 20 now? 20 is it. Oh, this is fantastic. This was just an idea recently, right? And we decided let's go. So, so uh so let's go. That's a great way to keep moving. I'd like to introduce our guest for this episode, an old friend, somebody that's done business with us. We we know each other quite well, a gentleman by the name of Wayne Hall. Welcome, Wayne. Thank you for coming. Um let's dive right in. Let's dive right in. Okay, we can do that. Because you're a rookie in this business.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Well, you I'm just sitting here thinking. You were my first ad agency when I came to town. That's 20 years ago. Okay. And the bottom line is I don't think we were so thin that I don't think we were able to afford you anymore. It was crazy the business back then because we took over a bit of a disaster.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

How long had you been in business when that we were in business probably three, four years? Okay, so you really knew as well. Yeah, we I just come out of retail, sold my dealership, and and and here we are. Uh and we did, we we jumped into the deep end of the very attractive, not to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

You're very attractive because you knew what we were trying to do. Yeah, you were in the retail business. Everybody else just kind of they wanted to take our money, Joe. But at least you knew. You did some great training for us, you did a lot of things. I'm sorry, go ahead. No, that's your show.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

No, it's your show. You're the guest. No, it's your episode, man. I I'm I'm just here to follow along and ask the interesting questions. Question, interesting question number one. How long have you been in the like 60 years?

SPEAKER_02 1:57

I worked my working life, if I if I count when I got out of the military, I worked for 61 years. Wow. Okay. Um and for the most part, loved every minute of it, which is why I stayed in work so long. But 61 years would be the answer, and probably the automobile part of that is a is a bigger part of that. Different segments. I was in, I was in the finance side of the business. Uh, I remember making diploms for benefit uh for Ritter Finance. Um, what's a diploma? You know what a diploma is up. Tell the audience. And then go, a diploma, it was the used car guy would be selling a car, like a road lot, we got a road lot, and he would need a down payment. So he would call the small small loan company and say, I need a down payment for Joe Levine. Can you get over here and make a down payment? So we'd run over, look at, look at the customer, ask a few simple questions, give him a check for $500, and the loan was done. And the poor customer was on the hook then for a lot of interest and a lot of money back then. And then from there, I evolved to Ford Motor Credit Company. I went to work for Chase Manhattan Bank, and after Chase Manhattan Bank, I went into the dealer-only auction business and then retail.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

What branch did you serve in? The United States Army. Thank you for your service. You're more than well. We need to start there. That's the most important thing. Thank you. I know you're a very proud member. Everybody that's that's been in the church. Yes. Seriously, thank you for your service. Uh, we would not be the the country that we are if it wasn't for everybody who was willing to run in the direction of the bullets. Or accept a draft notice. Correct. Well, then it was no choice. Right? Right. Um, your your accent gives it away. I mean, you're from Iowa originally, only kidding. You're from uh Maine. Yes, yes. And you've been in New Jersey for how long?

SPEAKER_02 3:42

On and off. I guess I've been in New Jersey, probably about 30 years. So when we met. No, let me correct that because I spent 25 years in Long Island, so maybe 15, 20 years. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

I love that the accent never left you. This is great. We got to get you doing the never goes, it never goes away. No, it doesn't. And I love that because it sends people like, what did he say? And it's very it's very disarming. It's very disarming. Um, you know, we first met when you were when you had taken over as executive manager for a Honda store in New Jersey, and it had just been acquired. And I remember the day I walked in, the enemy was coming over the walls. I mean, it was unbelievable. People demanding uh refunds on their extended service contracts that the old owner evidently didn't put. It was just a mess. It was just a mess. And and we got together and saddled up the horses and created a brand and and ran it and kept it simple. Uh well, it's proper po, right? Cargai simple. We kept it simple. In the years that you have been in this business, what's changed?

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Probably how we access the business is the biggest change.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

The products pretty much stable. The brands we deal with are fairly stable. Um there have been some entries, the Koreans have gotten stronger, uh, but you've had the domestics being just about, you know, no new domestic products coming forward other than the electric effort, whichever however you want to rate that, you know. Uh, but the big thing is how you access the business. And I go from, you know, the get on the phone and call the ads in the newspaper and ask the guy why he's selling his car, how he's going to replace it, to getting street teams together and going to the malls and calling on the body shops and asking them, you know, this guy's obviously we need a name here. We do a referral business. But now it's a little different. There's this thing called AI. Uh, then you've got your organic search, uh, your paid search, and uh man, Google has gotten so rich, so rich off this whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

They really have. They really have. Um, do you think that that has that has helped or injured the customer buying and service experience?

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Uh I I look at that as two different things, Joe. And you know I do. I do. I think it was a trick question. Not that trick. It was more of a softball. But the the the real deal is however you access the business, however you get them over the door stoop or through the front door, whatever the case might be, that's what's going on today. And Google figured it out. They figured out how to captivate us with all of the various opportunities and how their algorithms work, which I don't think anybody's ever figured it out, and just pay more money and pay more money. And this is then they then they got uh how to measure it so you could see just how many people clicked on this and clicked on that. They captivated us and and we paid and we paid. And for the most part, I believe the industry's still paying. Nobody's figured out really anything different.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

No, no, they have, and if anything, it's it's paralyzed a lot of people. When is too when is the the data too much where you can't be the car person because the data is just wrapping on your skull to bank hard left when you know that you don't need to do that? When when do you run it through a filter and go, everybody just stop and think for a second?

SPEAKER_02 7:22

Well, with me, it was when you can't measure it. You know, we always talked about measurable results. Yeah. Well, Google filled that up. Look, we can you can go on and look at Google results and uh all sorts of different opportunities, everything. But I've been in I've been in situations where Google looked really great, but the business looked really bad. Yeah. And that's when people start to go bonkers. Because back in my day, we'd take out a big ad, PMD would write us a big ad, we'd put it in a big newspaper or two big newspapers in New Jersey, and we could see the upcount was up this weekend.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Hence my license plate now says up count on the back of my head. Is that what that's the plate name? There's a lot less blindfolded dart throwing when it comes to looking at a media now, because today's metrics we can have a much better target to aim at. Um, I said recently on a on a podcast that we could go squirrel hunting with an elephant gun, and then I realized maybe that was a little on non-PC, but it's true. We we don't have to guess as much as we used to have to guess. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_02 8:34

I I agree with it to the point where you can point it, you can move it around, and you can have uh two elephant guns and a small 22. But I've been through that and probably with one of the best guys at it internally that really worked hard at it and studied it. And and uh it it just but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're putting the right people, or the buyers, the people you want to see, or the service customers in the dealership. Right. That's what gets tricky. Right. That's why dealers, as you say, are banging their heads against the wall.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yeah. They are. Um and you know, it's it's interesting because you've always had one eye on new business and since we first met, but you at the same time, you were also very protective of your customers, whether it was fixed or variable or both, however they were doing business with you. And and I always give you credit because uh early on you had called me on the phone and said, I need a poster. Oh, okay. What does that what does that mean? I need a poster. This is very simple. If you need me for any reason, I want my name, I want my picture, and I want my cell phone number. Which cell phone number? Because that was back when guys would have their personal cell phone and they would have like a bat phone, right? That separate business. You know, no, no, no. My my I have one phone, Joe. And and you put that all over, and people would call you on and you always answer that. I remember sitting in a meeting with you from time to time. Are you really Wayne Hall? How how much do you think there was value to that? And should people consider even doing that today and make it visible and be approachable?

SPEAKER_02 10:09

It it's you know, people have different personalities. My personality is that um I don't mind engaging. You know, I often look at the automobile business and say, look, this is this is this is football. Because people that don't mind having contact are the people that are going to win in this business. And I never minded having contact. My reason for putting those up, one, it might have made the customer feel warmer, but my real reason is there's a problem. Let's solve it now. Let's not wait till they've called Honda, let's not wait till they've called the Consumer Bureau, let's not wait, call Wayne Hall. Let's talk about it and see if I can help you.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Do you think that the FTC guidelines are going to keep dealers in line that are not being that are being naughty as opposed to you were always uh you never crossed the line in all the time we ever did things together, and I know that was your reputation to never cross the line. Does it does being accessible into data?

SPEAKER_02 11:09

I was a Moy Scout, Joe. I was a Boy Scout probably cost a lot of money, but I was a Boy Scout. Well, everybody, by everybody's definition, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Do you think that that now this new sharper approach from the federal government to look at our industry, which by the way, the guidelines are pretty much no different than they used to be? We're just being forced to to do it properly. These have been statues been on the books for for the longest time. Is now the time to pull the name and phone number off the walls because of these new guidelines, or do the guidelines help prop up this transparent way of doing business?

SPEAKER_02 11:46

That's the easiest question you're gonna ask me to say. Call me first. Don't call the FTC. And if it needs to be adjusted, let's adjust it now. Because if the FTC comes in, they've got to pay a lot of people money to get there, and and that's not the answer. The answer is communicate with your customers. Okay. That's the answer. Is it is the new regulation or are the new regulations going to stop people from doing that? How's gun control working, Joe?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

That's a good point. That's a very valid, fair point. Uh and I think that there'll always be people that look to cross the line, and there are people that will maintain we don't need to cross the line because we're selling vehicles and we're looking for relationships. You were always a relationship guy, right? Now, comparing the the the days gone by to the new way and where we're headed, if we look at old versus new, customer relationships pretty much the same, more difficult to maintain. How do you see that?

SPEAKER_02 12:44

Well, yeah, I would say up until COVID, it was the same. It was the same. Work your customers, you you would get the return for it. From COVID on, and and fast forward, it's coming back to that now. But during COVID on, it was who had the cars that sold the cars, whether it were the Asians, uh, whether it were the domestics, but who had the vehicles sold the cars because they're the you know, not only COVID, but the chip shortage, a lot of things changed that. But today it's coming back to that customer relationship is really, really important in maintaining, especially in the service area.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Does franchise play a role in in um does franchise ever play a role in customer service rollout and skills with regard to the dealer level? Forget the manufacturer. Does franchise ever play a role in in how far you're willing to go customer goodwill and service-wise?

SPEAKER_02 13:44

It has to. For example, the brand that I worked with, um, not that there was exclusive or anything, it was nothing new to the, but Honda had a reputation for helping the customer. Right. And more than once the customer said, Wayne, I bought a Honda. And I kind of thought, and I said, Well, yeah, and if you'd have bought a Ford, you would expect that to run as well. But you bought a Honda, and I understand that. And and so because of Honda's reputation, when they just built the four-cylinder engine, it never broke. Right? Right. And they fixed the rush problem and all that, right? Okay, because of that, they expected big things. So I gave away probably more than a sane person would have to keep that customer happy. Did it pay off in the long run? To me, it did, yes. Why? Because we had a great return. We were, I think our return measured by Honda's, did it, you know, just let's pick a percentage. I think we were around 45%, uh, 49%, 50% return uh to purchase was where the um where the target was in in service. We had challenges there, but we maintained what we had uh uh and and changed it a little bit. Hopefully the new facility for them is gonna change. Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

And and after the break, we have a break coming in a couple of minutes, and we want to talk about transitioning from a very split facility where the satellite showroom was not around the corner and what the logistics of that are like. And hopefully some of our viewers can pick up on some of that versus transitioning into how big is the nounu building now? Probably sixty, seventy thousand square feet. With rooftop parking. With rooftop parking. With entrances on two streets. Uh that's bigger than I can even get. So we're gonna talk about that after uh after the break. Um there's a correlation between between uh service retention and keeping that UIO for the next second, third, fifth vehicle. Do you find it to be less expensive to maintain those relationships than advertising for Conquest business? I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Uh I'm hoping that some of those challenges will improve when they go into the new fill facility. I'm not, I'm hoping, but I'm hoping for them that it does. But I spent a tremendous amount of money attempting to penetrate the UIO. And of course, as you know, we had one of the biggest UIOs in the area.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

You did, yeah, and and still do. Um, but this new building brings new challenges as well, which we'll talk about in a little bit in terms of the nut, right? It's uh the you you you can't deliver, you know, the same number you were delivering and get away with it. It's is it 2x, you think, in a in a building that go from what you had to into what you're into now?

SPEAKER_02 16:35

I I'm not sure, and I will preface this before we go for the break, that I when I turned the keys over to the building and I explained that to you, um, I then stepped away. I'm involved in a couple of corporate items. Right. But other than that, I stepped away from that business. That's a new director, a new person there, right, and I stepped away. So I'd like to answer those questions more accurately. Um I don't even hear any rumors.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Josh, permission to handle the witness is difficult, please. Difficult witness. Thank you. I accept that answer. Okay. We never went up against Wayne, did we, Josh? No. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Um I'm sorry to be so vague.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

No, no, no. I think the biggest challenge in moving to a new facility really is even what you think the number needs to be. It all Mike Tyson, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. You open the new building, you cut the thing, you get the proclamation from the the good, the tape, you put it up on the wall, everybody's ready to go, and whoops, all of a sudden the whoopses start to show up. Um, and and that's I I think the biggest conundrum: new facility versus stay where you are, even though the factory is always pushing for newer, bigger, better, next generation. It's it gets crazy. We we had a dealer in Washington, D.C. who gave up and sold his store because he was in a current gen. They wanted a next gen, they threatened not to deliver. It was a mess. How do you feel about that?

SPEAKER_02 18:04

I don't know that the pressure from the manufacturer made us go to that building. Uh we had facility challenges from the get-go. You know that you were there. I was, yeah. Our facility by the river, we had a couple of floods. Uh oops. Uh we we had what was less than um eloquent, if you would. Yeah. You were there, okay? Uh we had some great customers there, though, I'll tell you that. Some people that are very loyal to us there. Uh we had a space on Route 3 that was Honda's pride and joy. You had a great place on Route 3. Uh, you know, from being there on a Saturday, um, we only have like a quarter or half an acre here. Where are we going to park all these customer cars? And there's certainly no cars to display. So if a customer wants to see a car, then that car has to be uh driven in and then it does. So there were lots of challenges.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

So we're just takes away a lot of that. Yeah, we'll talk about logistics. I'm I'm really interested to get your opinion on a lot of that secret stuff that people don't always talk about, but it shouldn't be that secret. Josh, are we coming up on a break? Break time. What a great segue for a break, Wayne. We'll be back in 60 seconds. Thank you so much. Please stay tuned. A lot more to come from Wayne Hall, a wealth of knowledge, and an old friend of ours in the car business. Thank you for staying tuned, and we'll see you in 60 seconds here at CGS, the Car Guy Simple podcast for everybody in the car business.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Our full service ad agency specializes in providing creative solutions for new car dealerships, looking to sell more vehicles, increase service numbers, and promote their brand image more effectively. We use our experience in television, OTT, digital, social media, and more to anticipate challenges and find effective market-dominating solutions so that our dealership partners can thrive in an ever-changing landscape. You can learn more at PMDUSA.com.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Welcome back to CGS Car Guy Simple Podcast, the syndicated podcast on all platforms, powered by PMD in world-famous bootin, New Jersey. Josh, I had to say that. A little bit of a shameless plug there. I'm Joe Levine, your host. Welcome back. Today, we have with us an icon in the automobile business and a very humble guy because you don't like being put up on a pedestal. And I know that a gentleman in business in the automobile business over 60 years, Mr. Wayne Hall, and thank you again for joining us today. We really appreciate you. My pleasure, Joe. Thank you. Um let's pick up where we left off, right? Um so how far apart was your you had a highway showroom satellite, and you had a service parts, accessories, used car, everything was in town. How far apart were the two as the crow flies? About seven miles. Seven miles.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

But it wasn't six minutes. Well, wait a minute. But we didn't have enough space in those two facilities for our inventory. That's right. So we had area three. And how far is that? Oh, that varied. It was ten miles away. In traffic, out of traffic, you know.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Right. So it wasn't this wasn't uh Muscle Shoals, Alabama. I always, Dan, I always love to talk about Muscle Shoals, Alabama. It's actually where where's what's so famous about Muscle Shoals, Josh? Leonard Skinnard. Leonard Skinner had a recording studio there. That's right. Who was a school teacher? That's correct. Very good. This man knows his music. I remember the it's not seven miles that took five minutes. Seven miles in this metro could take twenty minutes to get to, 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 21:52

It's four to five in the evening. Usually it didn't open till nine, but you know, so how did it change your sales process?

SPEAKER_01 22:00

Process. Let's start there. So somebody walks into the showroom on Route Three, wants to buy a new Civic. We have no inventory there. How did you have to change? What are the things you had to think about in a split facility?

SPEAKER_02 22:11

Uh well, first of all, you had to you you had to qualify. You had to do the steps to the sale. Okay. But now it was like it's time to do the walk-around. So usually you end up doing a walk around on a car that was in the showroom that was kind of like the one they were going to get, maybe not the same color that they wanted, and maybe um uh it was gonna take 15 or 20 minutes to get theirs over here. And then there was the salesman uh part of it, which made it a little bit more difficult because Joe's got a date tonight, or he's busy, or he had one last night, and he's a little tired and everything. So I'm gonna skip that part. I'm gonna sell this vehicle right now without them seeing it. How'd that work? Uh that usually caused uh a loss of sale. Yes, it did. Yeah. Because they can't see it, taste it, smell it, but instead 15, 20 minutes in to get the vehicle there. Right. So we and I had talked about this, and you've talked even sometimes more complicated, and unless it happened to be a vehicle that was showroom ready, which was difficult with all the dust and everything like this time of year to keep a vehicle like that. The people got the vehicle, right? They looked at it, and now it's got to go back and get the final touches before they could take the and they did that for 19 years, Joe.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

You know, I keep forgetting that you were in that facility for that long. And and luckily that building literally downstreet within walking distance, um, you were able to acquire that what was a former car dealership facility, and and then uh and then the shovels came out.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

It was Lincoln Merker, it was.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

There's an evolution. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The the very fact that you just stated what I was hoping you were gonna say, what I knew you were gonna say, enhances what we've always talked about together. Um the the very basic metric of the probability of a sale of a vehicle new or used is enhanced seven times just from a guest ride, just by getting somebody behind the wheel of the vehicle you want them to buy, that you want to sell. Seven times greater probability of selling that vehicle versus what a lot of managers say, all right, what you do here is just do say hi, find out what they want, sit them down, do a five-liner, take it to the desk, get an offer. They haven't even they haven't even seen anything yet. And you were always slow them down, get them in a car, take them for a ride, correct?

SPEAKER_02 24:32

You had no option to do it that way. Where if I had five acres, or I remember the first time I went to Texas when I was with Chase Auto Finance, and I went to a dealership there, and I said, I've never seen, I've always worked in metro areas, I've never seen some hay trucks in my life. Is this the factory? Oh no, this is uh Houston Ford or whatever it was, and it was like amazing the size of these lots. And we had nothing that even replicated or came close to that. Every vehicle had to be brought in. So the element of um, you know, here it is, I see it, I want to buy it. Uh Amazon's done a pretty good job of that. Here it is, you see it, you want to buy it. They have okay, they even have a little video you can play and all that stuff. Okay, in the automobile business, probably either the largest purchase that somebody's gonna make in their lifetime or the second largest purchase they're gonna make, they want to touch and feel at still. And if you don't have that car at the lot, you're at a disadvantage to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Right. But you've worked out the logistics, you figured out communication skills had to be improved between fixed and variable ops to pull all this stuff off. What percentage of your vehicles got spotted? 69 and above. 69%. It's not like you know your numbers. I'm only kidding. 69% and above of your monthly deliveries were spotted. That was the number we work with. In the environment that you just uh gave me, yet there are single point stores in one facility that have a tough time cracking a 50% pen, a 50%. Wow, easy for me to say, a 50% spot delivery ratio. A lot of guys are under that. Is that mindset training uh sales process? What causes low spot delivery rates?

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Oh, that's a great question. And that's something that used to, you know, you reach for something refreshing. You do you like, you know, uh good Lord, give me something to make me feel better about this whole process, what happens, right? You know, and it used to come to me that, you know, here we are, you your desk now has where a normal desk could see every deal working. Okay, put the guy together, but boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, right? No, no, we got to get the car up here, you know, where you at with that deal. Now the guy's tied up with one up. There's ups all around. I need more ups, but you can't work three ups in the process. Uh it was a nightmare to have to get the car up there. You then you kind of re-engage with a customer once the car shows up, uh, because you can do a walk around, you can talk about how your children, where does your brother work? Uh, you can go, but pretty soon it's 20 minutes before that car's going to get up there. It was always a challenge. But some of the greatest times, you remember Tim Levanta, huh? Sure. Yeah, Timmy was a real great manager for me and helped me with build a lot of the processing. And we would do that, and we would be able to do it, and I would sit down at the end of a Saturday and say, we delivered 40 cars today. Wash, clean, delivered 40 cars today, and we did it out of a facility that doesn't have one of those cars on the lot. And I used to say, Thank you, good Lord, that's a good job. So it was a team effort. It was a team effort. It was choreographed by a group of people that weren't maybe talking to each other other than a text. Uh, we worked off a text string when text got to be uh a little bit more favorable, uh, pages, whatever it was to contact. But these weren't people that sit down and met every day. This wasn't like, let me walk down the hall. This used car guy's not getting this thing done. The used car guy was in another building seven miles away.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

That's right. That's right. That's right. So really it was a combination of people and process. Because it wasn't facility. That didn't happen, versus you got this gorgeous 70,000 square foot facility that has all kinds of prep stations and delivery stations and stations for stations. I'm surprised there's not a sushi station there somewhere. There might be coming soon to a theater near you, right? But the but the facility you had to work out of spotting 40 cars a day had nothing in in in terms of modern day conveniences for the internal customers, your employees, to be able to execute these these shining star moments for for customers that are taking delivery. And yet you got it done because of people in process, correct? Yeah, that you were the guy.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

I remember you when first time I product, people, a product, people in process. Product, people and process. Well, we had the product. The problem is the product was in another location. That's right. That's right. It was in another location. And getting people in that demonstrate that it was patient. People come out, they cut time out of there. And when I say 40, I picked the high numbers the year. We sold 4,000. Uh, we, you know, um, big year. Uh we had the process nailed, and time changed things with all the different ups and downs of the business. But you know, probably with with an with an average of 30, and we did it all, the building had it was beautiful sitting there on Route 3. If you didn't go by fast, because it was very small. Right. So when that all happened, and it was the people. It was the people and the process. So you nailed it when you said that's what the people processed.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

That's the time you called me on the phone and said, This building is too small. We have to make it into an icon. I want to call it the big beautiful the big beautiful. No, it was the big blue Honda building on Route Three. And and people would be like, Where's this big blue building? And they would come up and go, This this thing's the size of this cup. But it worked because it gave them something to think about, which is a great segue. Let's now shift gears and talk about territory, right? You bring back memories to that big blue building. The big blue building. Yeah, I asked, where's the big blue building? You're here. It worked. Yeah, it worked. Welcome. So now let's talk about terror, right? Every manufacturer, dealer, sales and service agreement, whether it's an AOR, an ASA, a PMA, forget the acronyms. Every dealer, sales, and service agreement for any refranchise that you name is going to have a list of zip codes. And they want that where you need to be sales effective. And um and the the identifying territory is what I want to talk about next. So we use data uh to identify beyond the confines of the stated zip codes that are in the dealer sales and service agreement. Where do we carve out the right geography and play to it based on drive time? Not because life is not a perfect circle, even out in Iowa. It's just not. It drive time matters. When you look at territory, what do you think about? What are the questions that you ask that you want people to come back to you with research? What do you think about?

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Well, it that's probably one of the biggest challenges because we had what was identified by Honda as one of the biggest uh automotive markets in the United States. So they're expecting huge production from us all the time. Um and um wanting to be an achiever, I guess, or whatever the case may be, and seeing other people's numbers, I tortured myself over the fact we have these people here. Why can't we bring more of them in? Why can't we colidate more of the business? Um, and that's an all-A to Z, you know, because it starts with the sale of the car, it starts with the people that you gain from service, service sales. Uh our service department, as you know, was antiquated at best. Um, and we just had challenge after challenge with that. And the other thing that I think is is was somewhat challenging for us, and we did a real good job with it uh at the end, but we our market was about around 55% solid Hispanic. So we had two distinct different markets.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

We yes, and but that we're seeing that more and more. I mean, our our opinion is any market that is north of 25% uh Hispanic needs to be held, you know, held that we just did a presentation yesterday for a Toyota retailer, and we showed him that his the Latin community within uh 30-minute drive time of his store, which is not a big geography, um, had 26% uh of the of that total population were members of the Latin community, and how we have to dis differentiate between how do we market to Anglos and how do we market in service to members of the Latin community. And um even supported by recently we had uh David Gallego on from uh from NBC Universal Telemundo, and we were talking about the difference. Members of the Latin community are very loyal and will send you customers, but they're punitive because if you don't do the right thing, that switch goes off quick. And yet, you maintained a philosophy that everybody's in this together, right? It doesn't matter what community you're from, let's just keep you happy. Was that not what's what's what was your slogan? We say yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Yeah, we we we tried to align our personnel with a market. We really worked at aligning our personnel with a market because we also had, as well as the Hispanic market, we we had a huge African-American market. Right, you know, and then you had the people that were challenged to us, the uh um I say this the right way, the uptight white people, Joe, that lived in another part of our uh our territory didn't necessarily uh like to go to where we were at every time. Um, and they had expectations of things. I can tell you this, though, that the Latin people were very, very loyal, as you say. Uh and we tried our best to keep them loyal because they're a big piece of our action. Uh but being consistent with people that did not want to visit our service area was was a challenge. It's always a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Do you do you did you ever get involved in pickup and delivery for service or sales? Is that something you tried to stay away from based on your volume?

SPEAKER_02 34:18

When you walk at night, Joe, that could take you three and a half hours. Exactly. At seven in the morning, it could take three and a half hours. And uh there just wasn't enough to go around. So so and now there are guys that do that. There are. There are guys that do different geography. Yeah, and and it's different geography, but in congestion and pricing, and uh you I don't know. I didn't, nor did I have the ability to figure that out or manage it. I got you. I'd be the first to say that.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

We're down to about nine minutes, and there's two really good ones that I want to get into this pot. It's important from for I'm sure you're saying the best for the last Joe. I know you a long time. Well, but I don't I I'm not gonna throw you the heater. Oh, I'm not gonna throw him the heater, throw him the heater. I'm not gonna do that to you. Um, advice. I mean, I I I benefited, you mentioned my father, and I thank you for that. He was a dealer for 53 years, multi-roof top guy. Um, you know, there's a lot if you pay attention. My father used to say youth is wasted on the young. Here's the question coming from you as consiliary. What advice do you have for new owners and new general managers, GMs? Because over the last couple of years, it's not like it was 20, 25 years ago. Yet we're headed back to those days of how people thought about sales and service. What advice do you have for new owners and new GMs?

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Number one, make the hiring process count. Spend a lot of time on the hiring process because you can waste a lot of time with the wrong people. You can make a lot of money with the right people. Spend a lot of time on the training process. And training, I'm not necessarily telling people that cars have four wheels, this is electric, and you and that. I'm talking about training them on how your culture works. Um, and let me just shorten this up. Be the shepherd and make sure if you're the owner, even if you're the owner, you're not one-downing it to the general manager. Make sure the sheep know your voice.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Is panic an option as an owner or a general manager in this world today? Um, is there a place to be panicky? Yeah, maybe uh not unless you drink a lot.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

I don't think so. I agree with you. Water, water, we're talking about water, take it easy.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Come in, come in early, stay late. Yeah. Well, that's how I I mean, I you know, I was trained that if you're not walking the service drive at 7 30 in the morning and you're an upper management, you're making a mistake. Culture. You went right to culture. So you feel that culture trumps everything. It just it it the most important thing is it when you interview, right? Can this person fit into our culture and do they understand our culture and be willing to fit into it? Kind of goes hand in glove for you. Right. Absolutely. Okay. And then we can get into the nuts and bolts of this thing. So that that's interesting. Um you said to me earlier today, we were talking before we got we went on with uh got this episode going, and you smiled and and uh when I was talking about, well, you know, what's old is new again. And you said to me, There's no difference. The car business is the same. Do you really believe that?

SPEAKER_02 37:35

Nothing is new under the sun. It's the same thing. You need to get people in your face. Okay. And that'll never know what you do for a living?

SPEAKER_01 37:45

That's exactly what we do. Okay. And that's important. It is. It's a hundred percent important. How how is so now we we talked about uh top line culture, tat amount that has to really survive an interview. How do you string that together to build an entire team? Should we have a few minutes? You can have a few minutes. Oh, thank you, Your Honor. Uh permission to proceed, Your Honor. Thank you. Um string this together to build an entire team from general manager across all party lines so that the porter and the general manager aren't vertical, it's more horizontal like a horizon. How do you build that in today's world?

SPEAKER_02 38:24

Uh I thought a big part of that was kind of being able to align the pay plans so that no matter what my job was, I was influenced or how I influenced the team, I would be rewarded similar to how the team got rewarded. Okay. And that's kind of how I put it together.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

So money is part of an alignment tool in your belief on how culture can because everybody's thinking the same things?

SPEAKER_02 38:48

Yeah, not that money is everything. Go ahead, but at least it's a start and how it works. You you if you were laying out the process, the process has to have a degree of equality for everybody. The process has to have a degree of equality for everybody. The guy that's delivering those cars, the guy that's delivering those cars to the showroom on Saturday, has to have a case of with them. What's in it for me? Yeah, what's in it for me? Because why am I rushing this car over to Debbie to get the car over to Debbie to get it delivered? Right. What's motivating me to, hey, I got an outside guy to wash the car, let's go. I got number five, number six, number seven, get this one over. I listen, 40 cas. Never talked to the guy, never saw the guy, never went over and stood alongside of the guy.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Monday morning, I got to call him up and say, hey, wow, you did 40 cas. As opposed to, I'm paying you all the money, I'm gonna smack the crap out of you, knock out every tooth in your have a sales meeting at at 8:30 and lock the door if you're late, charge somebody 50 bucks and then pistol whip people because they have no appointments. So you met some of those guys. I I worked for a few of those. Uh and they still have a nervous tip because of it, right? But today's world, it's it's uh uh musketeers, one for all, all for one. Everybody's all for one in this. Well, you really had to have a culture that was unified because of the split facility and horrible.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

We did it. I I believe this beginning tie was through pay plans, and then we had uh things that really made me an unpopular shepherd is that you had to work where we wanted you to work today, which meant you might be in Passaic today. Right. You might be in Clifton today. Right. And how was that met? Was that met with oh no? Or was that met with okay, but don't take me out of my comfort zone. No, listen, this is why you got to get out of your comfort zone. And I had great people. One of the reasons that I stayed so long at the party, I had great people. You know some of them. I had great people.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Well, you're not out yet. You you you're very humble. You talk about working for the so the dealer group, how many stores in the group that you're associated with?

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Oh, we started out with four, I think, when I first came, four or five. And then we're now up to uh close to eleven.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

So eleven stores, and you're working in corporate, which means you're not out of the car business. And that's a good thing for us as an industry because of everybody that I've ever been across, you're one of the few people that never felt that the best way to sell cars is let everybody loose, row out into the middle of the lake, stand up in the boat and say, Okay, fish, jump in the boat. And you believe that training, patience, consistency, and culture really made the difference? Motivation. Motivation, negative or positive motivation? Uh depends on the deck.

SPEAKER_02 41:35

I'm probably I'm a tough boss. So like that's that's a tough question, Joe. But it has to be positive. And there has to be somebody between the hard rules that waters it down by the time it gets to the people. Right. And makes it uh a little softer and gets it done.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

But rules are made to be followed. Uh with now at rules, we have chaos, so sometimes you have to be punitive to hold the line, no? Uh, either that or you have to reevaluate your rules because basically people want to do the right thing. Okay. So that's a great segue to our right. I think we're at our final thoughts here for this episode. Time flew. This was fun. Gotta figure out how to get you back. Um what are your final thoughts for this episode? And you you you've got so many things that I would love to. We just stretch the surface. Throw out your final thoughts. What's Wayne's final thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 42:29

First of all, getting together with you and talking again, because we talked a lot. I remember you were the you were the guy that you were the air action guy who was I want to be a redneck. He shows up in a pickup truck, but the pick up truck was a Lincoln. That's true. And I'm saying, I want to be a redneck, but I can't be. I'm in a Lincoln pickup truck. That was true. Uh, you know, I guess the memories, the, you know, in conclusion, the memories, the people. Uh, I had some great people that work for me. I had great people. I have people that contact me now that unfortunately we didn't get along together. We separated from each other. They congratulate me. They call me people that call me. I had uh uh Voice from the Past call me yesterday. What do I get this situation? What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 43:11

A legacy. That's why. You know, the people that paid attention, because there's always that, right? I hate the 80-20 rule. 80% is done by 20% of the people. That that's that but you never thought that way. You wanted everybody to grab the rope and pull together. You still feel that way?

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Yeah, and and I still feel that you have to work. It's a cross-country match because if you can't get the seventh guy across the line, you can have the four best guys in the county. But the four best guys in the county could be one, two, three, four. But if you can't get five, six, and seven across the line, you're in a lot of trouble.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

That's well said. I I, you know, and hopefully I'll be the number seven guy that always finishes. So I want to be uh I want to live up to your standards. And uh, speaking of that, unfortunately, we're out of time for this particular episode. Thank you so much. This is an icon here. This gentleman, all learn from Joe. All right, don't don't talk about him being an icon, even though he really is. Just pay attention to this guy. Thank you so much, Wayne, for being here. We really appreciate you spending the time with us. I know you got a lot going on. Um, so that the time was hopefully worth it. I love it. Thank you so much for continuing to be loyal to this podcast, right? Whether you're a listener, whether you're watching, both, everything is available for you to go back and watch and listen to again. Keep the mailbag questions going. We continue to do more episodes of mailbag questions. I'm Joe Levine from CGS on behalf of everybody here at CarGuy Simple, the podcast for the automobile business. Thank you so much. Looking forward to seeing you again real soon. Stay tuned.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, and at CarGuysImple.com to learn more and see behind the scenes actions. If you have a topic you want us to discuss, we'd love to hear from you. Feel free to send Joe an email at Joe at CarGuysImple.com. This is the Car Guide Simple Podcast. See you next time.